Submission. Is that not possibly the most misunderstood word in all of Christianity?
There was a lively discussion on this topic recently on a message board that I frequent. This board is not focused on Christians, in fact I’d venture to say the majority aren’t. For this reason, it provides me a lot of opportunities to get broad reactions to a variety of subjects, and lots of opportunities to discuss (OK, perhaps debate is sometimes a better word) my beliefs with others. It all started with a posting of a recent news article about the Duggar family. For those living under a rock, this is the family who just added their 17th child, and say they aren’t necessarily done. While I can’t imagine wanting to be pregnant for nearly 13 years of my life, much less raising that many kids to adulthood, I have no beef with them and their family planning. Not my problem, and if they’re happy, then who cares? But that’s not even the point.
The point is that through their family site, www.duggarfamily.com, their beliefs are fairly apparent. They are Christians, fairly fundamentalist ones. Specifically, they pay a lot of heed to Ephesians 5:22, “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” Needless to say, this concept is horrifying to nonbelievers, and some believers as well. The very idea, for a woman to submit to her husband! Decades of feminism down the drain!
But does this really have anything to do with feminism or lack thereof? I think not. I’m a fairly strong, independent woman. These are traits my husband likes, or at least that’s what he tells me. I’m generally nobody’s fool, and I’m certainly not lacking in opinions. And in my opinion, wifely submission doesn’t have anything to do with being a doormat. God clearly intends for the husband to be head of the household and for wives to submit to their husbands’ authority. To me, what this means is that if there is a difficult decision to be made and the couple is at a standstill in their discussion, the husband should make that decision.
What some people seem to think is that this means wives don’t get any input into family issues and decisions. Um, no. Who said that? A smart husband will consider his wife’s input (even if it’s ill-informed, as some of my input can be, especially if it relates to cars, Star Trek, or home networking). I would think that a couple following the principles of Ephesians 5 would communicate constantly about family decisions. It’s a partnership, not a dictatorship, but for some reason, people think that “submission” means “cower and let the jerk run over you.” They think that a submissive wife rushes to do her husband’s bidding without a question or a thought, and that a husband who is head of the household is someone who comes home every night and sits in front of the TV without a word except to demand his dinner and a beer. Hello?
And then there’s the “well, is a woman called to submit to a husband who is abusive?” Two things on that. First, well, a big NO. Submitting to the husband as head of household does not equal allowing him to be emotionally or physically abusive. And second, a husband who is also called to follow the principles of Ephesians 5 will be loving, not abusive. That’s the whole point of Ephesians 5, that husbands and wives follow the God-given roles and focus on their own behavior, not the other person’s. In my personal opinion, that’s what’s wrong with a lot of marriages now. Not necessarily that they don’t follow Biblical roles, or the wives don’t submit, or anything like that. Rather, that they are all about what “I” want, or what “I” think, or what “you” aren’t doing for me. I have always heard and believed that true love is when the other person’s needs surpass your own. Is this not true?
That brings me to the next passage, which conveniently gets left out of a lot of these discussions. Ephesians 5:25, “Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her.” That means my husband ought to love me enough to die for me. And I know he would. Who could possibly say that a relationship like that is abusive or unfair or uneven? Personally, I think that I got the easier end of the deal. Submit to authority vs. loving to the point of death? While I certainly do love my husband that much, the point is that I think what he was called to do is a lot more difficult than what I was called to do.
I just don’t think people who don’t believe in these principles can understand what it is like to try to live them. Now, don’t misunderstand me. That is not a criticism of these people or of their marriages. It’s simply a fact. Some Biblical principles can be understood on some level by nonbelievers, even if they disagree with them. But this one, I truly feel is baffling to so many people. And many people think that it’s damaging to society as a whole. They think that if girls are taught that as wives they should submit to their husbands as to the Lord, that it will undo years of progress on the part of women. Now, mind you, I am not against feminism. Without it, I couldn’t vote, couldn’t own property, and certainly could have gotten the education I did or the job I have. What I am against is what I like to call femiNazis, which I’m sure I will rant about in a future post. But to my point, I think this fear that some people have is based on misunderstanding. They think that teaching women to submit will damage all mankind (or womankind). I think that is way off base.
holly | 22-Aug-07 at 10:43 am | Permalink
I think most people don’t like the idea of submission in marriage even under perfect circumstances – a feminist community life and a perfectly loving and wise husband at home. It’s just the concept of someone having authority over you, regardless of whether it’s a good guy or bad guy.
I still don’t quite understand what submission actually means to you. (I understand everything it isn’t). Can you provide an example or two where you practiced submission? I think that might illustrate what types of things you submit for and what you don’t.
Emily | 22-Aug-07 at 11:55 am | Permalink
I will think on that. To be honest, examples are difficult to come by because true situations like that just aren’t very common. To me that is another misconception. It’s not as if we sit around every day talking about how I am submissive. It’s not very common that we are at absolute impasse and need a “tie breaker” if you will.
And I’m certainly not perfect at the concept. I struggle with it, even as I acknowledge its appropriateness.
Maybe a recent example of the rental properties we own. I have wanted to sell a few of them for quite some time. He thought it wiser to keep them since in theory the value would appreciate. Now, we have actually decided to sell a couple, but he still does not feel it’s wise to divest all our holdings. I am not completely on board with that.
We do not have children right now, but school might turn out to be another example. I am a big proponent of public schools. He feels quite strongly that any children we have should go to private schools. I might just end up submitting in this area.
Of course, both those examples are after much thought and discussion. I didn’t just say OK to whatever he thought best without having a conversation (or two, or a thousand) on the subject to do our best to come to a joint decision.
Also, the concept is more of a perspective and attitude much of the time. It’s not so much a list of when you were submissive as it is the mindset that God has called you to that role.
holly | 22-Aug-07 at 8:10 pm | Permalink
Aha – see that’s why it’s hard to grasp – it doesn’t seem to come up. If you don’t mind….
It’s not so much a list of when you were submissive as it is the mindset that God has called you to that role.
Do you think it’s possible to be submissive, but never actually submit. That is a mindset that is never practiced? Theoretical question.
Now that you have me thinking about it, I know three types of Christians. The first group is very conservative and very submissive in lots of trivial everyday stuff. The second group say they practice submission but can’t remember the last time they submitted, and the third group don’t practice submission. I don’t poll people about this, so there’s probably more out there than that.
I’m trying to think of an example of my own, but regardless of we do or don’t say we do, in reality it usually works in favor of whoever feels the strongest about the subject. In the case where we’re tied, the status quo seems to win. One of us just can’t go about changing our existing situation when the other is so much against it. I guess in the situation of public vs private schools, there is no status quo, but in five years of marriage perhaps we haven’t had any true forks in the road.
Rachael - Rae_anna46 | 24-Aug-07 at 8:59 am | Permalink
This is my position on women and marriage – I believe in wifely-submission, but i don’t believe in wife-ONLY-submission. I live in a mutual submission marriage and I submit to my husband out of love, and he also submits to me out of love. There is no hierarchy or authority structure in our union. I disagree that my husband is somehow in authority over me.
In practice, I suspect that your marriage and my marriage look pretty similar in terms of how decisions are made and how we relate to each other. We are both in healthy marriages with men who appreciate the strength of their wives’ personalities and giftings.
The most common criticism I have heard to mutual submission is “But what if you are at an impasse and disagree? Someone has to be the deal-breaker and it should be the husband.”
My response to that is that I believe in ‘inaction until unity’. If we are facing a decision where you cannot agree (hasn’t happened yet), then after talking together you would set aside time for individual and together fasting and prayer. I absolutely believe that our God, who is God who desires unity in marriage, will work through both spouses being in ultimate submission to Him and show them how to move forward. It might turn out that God convicts the wife to submit and follow what her husband desires even though it is not her prefrence. It might be that God convicts the husband to submit to what his wife desires even though it is not his preference. Or God might show them a path of compromise they had not seen before.
In any case, I believe God will work to help the spouses have unity of mind and purpose if they are both committed to submitting their will to Him.
Rachael - Rae_anna46 | 24-Aug-07 at 9:40 am | Permalink
Now that I’ve laid out what I believe about submission in marriage and how mutual submission best expresses the unity and roles in the marriage relationship, I want to talk a little about some fundamental flaws I see in wife-only submission.
You mentioned one of them in your post – “You don’t have to submit to an abusive husband.” I always hear this qualifier added to discussions of submission, but what I would like to know is *where in Scripture do you get that idea* and *how do you define abuse*.
One basic premise of the wife-only submission/husband as authority position is that it is the “Biblical position”. Yet I see so many extra-biblical teaching added to it.
In a healthy marriage like you and i have, these issues don’t even really come into play. Our husbands treat us as equals in the marriage relationship and involve us in decision-making. But husbands who are patriarchal in view don’t necessarily do that. Husbands who are driven by selfishness and foolishness don’t do that. And how are their wives to respond? Here are two scenarios – i would like to know how a wife-only-submission person such as yourself would advise someone to hanle these situations.
Because they’re not outright abuse, but they’re certainly unwise.
Scenario 1: John and Sarah are struggling about how to handle Sarah’s family. Sarah believes her dad is an unsafe person to have her kids around because he has a temper and is known to yell demeaning, hurtful things to the people around him when this happens. Plus her parents aren’t the most careful drivers in the world so she is nervous about the kids riding in their cars.
John doesn’t see what the big deal is about her dad. “So he yells sometimes. Everyone gets mad. I don’t see any reason why we can’t leave our kids there for the weekend while we go on vacation. Your sister leaves her kids there all the time and they’re fine.” He thinks the kids will be safe in their cars too. Generally, he is not a reliable person when it comes to assessing safety of others and has a proven track record of disregarding things like this to the detriment of the people involved.
Sarah adamantely does not want her kids unsupervised with her dad b/c she knows that he will get angry at them for no good reason (such as them spilling some food on the floor) and insult and demean them cruelly (“You are such a burden. Only babies spill food. I don’t know why I agreed to watch you two, you’re nothing to be but trouble. And your parents obviously didn’t do a good job raising you if you are such screw-ups.”) Plus she has witnessed the poor driving patterns of her parents and has good reason (in her mind) to be concerned.
They have no other family or trustworthy friends to leave their kids with for the weekend – it’s either Sarah’s parents or no one.
John tells Sarah that the kids have to stay at her parents’ and that they need to go on this trip because he has been looking forward to it for a long time (nevermind the fact that he planned and booked it without consulting Sarah and without thinking through childcare arrangements).
**What should Sarah do? And how do you back it up Scripturally.**
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2. This time it’s a money issue. Sean is a spender, Jessica is a saver. She works really hard to budget well for her family and spend within their means. Sean doesn’t care – he thinks that because he earns more than Jessica, he has the right to spend ‘his money’ how he sees fit. So that means that they are in a fair amount of credit card debt and have no money in emergency savings because he spends so much extra per month. Jessica has talked to him about this issue to no avail. He tells her that he is the final authority in the home and that he is ultimately responsible for how money is handled, so she needs to back off.
She needs to buy the kids new shoes, clothes, and supplies for school along with groceries. Once again, there is just $50 left in the checking account because Sean spent $300 on a new gadget or gizmo without asking (and when she talked to him about it, he didn’t think it was a big deal – ‘just put the kids’ things on a credit card and we’ll pay it off with my bonus’ he says.)
What sort of accountability can she bring to the relationship? In wife-only submission, she can make her thoughts and feelings known but after that she has to leave the matter in her husband’s hands or else if things are really out of hand, bring in elders from the church to hold him accountable.
She herself is powerless in her own home b/c she is not considered to have any authority over how things go. Her husband has authority, church leaders have authority, but she does not.
Jacqueline | 25-Aug-07 at 6:08 am | Permalink
Rachael explained my position well – we’ve had this discussion a couple of times
It’s not that I don’t believe in submission – I do! I believe strongly that it is required within marriage – not only from me, but from Matt, as well. On the flip side, Matt is to love me as Christ loves the church, yes? Am I not called to love him the same? Am I truly not called to lay down my life for him as my husband? I don’t think these are either/or callings within marriage – we are to submit one to another, and we are to be willing to suffer and die one for another, both for the glory of Christ Jesus.
Doug | 03-Jan-08 at 12:33 pm | Permalink
I would say from a man’s point of view that what the majority of you married women are saying is correct. Ephesians 5 instructs both the man & woman in what to do. I commend you for your faith in God & your understanding in the Word. I have found that even in “confessing christian women” that their independence is stronger then their will to submit as God has instructed. Be it because of past failed relationships that caused them to go one in life alone until they meet another or maybe the femenist side that was taught to them. As a fervent Christian man I understand both roles of submission. I do not expect a wife to be at my beckoning call, nor do I let her use me as a door mat in order to get her way. If a woman is not in the Word & is not walking with God & asking for direction through her faith, she will never learn to submit to her husband. It does not matter how much love she says she has. Her faith in Christ is the basis of her faith in her husband. In turn the husband being the spiritual head of the household should be understood by the wife. Why? Because her faith is yolked with his & therefore will trust her husbands judgement, concerns, morals, love for his family & most of all his faith in Christ. When 2 are yolked equally in faith then the physical, the soul & the spirit are united as one & can walk as one with God. This coming from a man that cooks, cleans, sews, & takes care of kids even after a 10 hr day at work while the wife may be enjoying a bubble bath. No not everyday..LOL!! But I believe in giving as much as I believe in receiving which point being…submission is for both but can only be done with equal faith. God Bless!!